Thalenra Roundup: A writing process ramble
End of Part 1a roundup, for novel 'In the Shadow of Ribbons' set Within Thalenra. Read for a casual ramble through my thoughts
Why a roundup
This post was originally intended to be a professional summary of the novel so far, and give an enticing view of what is to come, in an attempt at marketing my writing.
That didn’t happen. Instead, welcome to a casual ramble through my thoughts on what I’ve posted so far, how I think it’s going, and some detail on what comes next. Along the way you’ll get some insights into my writing process that weren’t asked for, but may entertain. To finish off, there is an attempt at explaining some of the technology and culture of the countries seen so far, and some maps I wanted to show off.
This will touch on aspects of everything posted for Thalenra, so spoilers are entirely possible. If that is something you like to avoid, then pause now, read everything on Within Thalenra, and come back here. Don’t forget that last part.
About the novel, In the Shadow of Ribbons
Summarising the novel
I find it difficult to say what my novel is about, because I worry about saying too much. The blurb I have on the Within Thalenra post is in my opinion awful, as it tells you nothing, but if I add more than am I saying too much? I think I will be able to do a better blurb when Part one's draft is complete, and I can feel that anything in it is fine to put in a blurb, just like it is for any novel.
In the meantime, I'm trying something different. Here is a blurb with each protagonist as its focus, which I think give a better idea of the novel, while holding back what they should. Let me know if I succeed, and which your favourite is.
Marnie
Marnie was as much a mystery to herself as anyone else, long before Telvor Belaine held her as an Oathbound Apprentice for two decades. She never questioned why, until she met Erian and he helped her regain fragments of her memories. But there is still a wall in Marnie's Mindscape, and if she's going to learn how to remove it, she'll have to follow Erian to Gethia - and unravel the threads that bind him.
Erian
Erian always knew the empathic ribbons were dangerous. The flows of spiritual energy exposed the emotions of others and gave him power over them, but not the control he needed. He avoided their use, obeyed the Council's rules, and pretended he belonged - until Marnie trusted him. A request from Gethia forces Erian to confront the ribbons, and accept control of them. In their shadow, where emotion becomes a weapon and memory is no refuge, he must decide whether feeling deeply is his greatest weakness, or the only way to survive.
Meliath
Meliath had always known what his duty was. He served the Council, hunted the Order, and protected his family. Even when Erian was revealed as an Empath, he found a way to balance the bond they shared with his loyalty to the council. That didn't change when they found Marnie, but the threads her discovery unravelled and the Order's shadowed plans, would threaten that tenuous connection between duty and blood.
What the novel’s about
Putting aside, a summary, what is this novel, really? Giving a specific answer is difficult, but some ramblings might help me more towards one
It's dark fantasy
Or should be despite how some characters are derailing that.
It's set in a high magic world, but is not high fantasy.
By that I mean magic is centre stage in the world, but the language and tone are too modern for what I consider to be high fantasy.
The story includes themes (among others) of
Control: Both through the personal struggles of Erian and Marnie and through comparing what control means in the Authoritarian Thaymia and Cooperative Gethia
Belonging: Erian always feels on the outside in Thaymia, while Marnie believes she has no one. Gethia will show whether there is truth in what that think and know
Acceptance and Self-Worth: Erian has never come to terms with his Empathica side, and is seen as a risk within Thaymia. That will need to change when Gethia requests his help.
What it's not about
It's not a romance.
Erian and Marnie have a connection, but it's a spiritual one. Erian does have a romantic connection in part two, but I don't think Marnie will. Meliath absolutely does, which will be set in stone as soon as I get scene 12 written
It's not a comedy.
This is here to remind myself of that. I like comedy. Terry Pratchett, Tom Holt, Jasper Fforde, Jodi Taylor. All are major influences on me. And if many years of playing & watching TTRPG Actual plays have taught me anything, comedy very much has a place in horror. My instinct when I write for Marnie, is to lean into the absurd, but I should keep it minimal if this is going to be as dark as I need it to be. Feel free to call it out if you think I'm including too many light-hearted moments
It's not a commentary on real-world issues.
It's not meant to be at any rate, but I can't deny they keep cropping up. The contrasts between Thaymia and Gethia, mirror far too much real-word concerns over the environment and authoritarian government, among others; it would be ridiculous to claim they aren't a factor. Frankly, the world is a scary place, and if my subconscious wants to tackle it through my writing, I'm going to let it. And I'm going to have my characters spouting opposing perspectives on them that may or may not reflect my own.
I will add - and I should probably put this on my About page as well - that if you want to discuss real-world issues in my comments or chat threads, then keep it civil, and I'll happily engage. But know that I've zero-tolerance for hate speech or inflammatory arguments, directed at me or my readers. Examples of those or similar, and I will act to remove them.
What's published so far
So far 12 scenes have been posted. On each, I finished up with some notes, which I’m going to summarise here, and expand on a couple. This is mainly so when I do upload rewrites in the future, I can take the notes off the post.
Marnie Nab: Waking up Free - Marnie wakes, expecting an annual ritual, and instead finds potential freedom. This was a scene that has sent me down a rabbit-hole of world building about a year ago. This was my first post on Substack, which due to technical issues I took down and re-added, as is. A few things have changed in this story, so there are some inconsistencies that will need addressing, Incidentally, if you haven’t clicked on the re-uploaded version, please do.
Erian: Finding Marnie - While acting as a consultant for his brother, Erian explores a renegade's house, and finds an imprisoned girl. This post represents the rabbit hole that sprung out of my previous post. When I began writing again a few weeks before Substack, it was Erian, rather than Marnie, that caught my attention, and I revisited the scene here with a clearer vision of the characters and their world. Erian will likely become the main protagonist, although I’m not sure he’s going to enjoy it.
Meliath: Renegade Investigation - While on a routine CCD investigation, Meliath must deal with inept City Guards, and his brother picking up strays. This is the first scene I wrote after deciding this was going to be a full novel, and not just a collection of random pieces. The scene was originally going to be Erian at the forefront, but I decided I needed to work on Meliath. He’s present in almost everything I’ve written for Parts 2 & 3, but I still didn’t know who he really was, and his team weren’t any more than Guy 1, 2 & 3. Telling this part from his perspective both gave me a better handle on all of them, and gave me a better idea on how others see Erian. It is also the first time I properly do character descriptions.
Marnie Nab: New Surroundings - Marnie wakes at the CCD team base, and finds lots of new things. I tried to capture Marnie as she is meant to be, away from Belaine, and spent more time on description in general. I had spent time world-building before this, so I was trying to include some of that, without going over the top.
Meliath: Hidden Archive - A tip from Marnie reveals hidden evidence. This scene will get shifted when I do a rewrite, adding it to the end of scene 3. It marks when I had a proper outline in place, which highlighted where I was going to get repetitive. Scene 12 is going to refer to what they found in this scene.
Erian: Infused Objects & Swirling Ribbons - In which a tour is started; and promptly forgotten. I mention Erian a lot, but this was the first scene from his perspective after I had done a lot of world-building, including on how his magic works. As I mentioned on this post I must think a lot about emotions to write for him. Personally, I am terrible at working out what emotions are being felt, whether they’re my own or someone else’s, so I’m clueless as to how I chose to have it at the core of Erian. The emotion-colour combinations are very loosely based on looking at various sites, but roughly feel right. I do get concerned that I’m flavouring Erian’s vision too heavily, and slowing the story down, so any comments on that would be appreciated.
Meliath: A Formal Introduction - A tense moment ensues when CCD Cell Xaelin encounter Marnie. This one was a balancing act, trying to match the tone with how things were changing, making each character’s voice stayed consistent while holding Meliath’s perspective on things at the front of it all. Where Erian sees emotions, Meliath picks up on visual cues, and trying to avoid being repetitive when describing reactions and body language is a challenge.
Marnie: Assessment Time!-Session 1 - Where the basics are explained and limits are explored. This one, and the assessment ones that followed, were difficult to write. Balancing giving enough technical information, against character concerns, without becoming bogged down in too much detail was a challenge. I think the assessment is the main reason I felt everything was going too slowly. I don’t think this scene was unnecessary, but I do think I can do a better job with it when it’s time for draft 2.
An evening of rest is prescribed. Nobody listens.
Marnie: Written Tests & Amethyst Mist - Where Marnie has an evening to herself to get some rest. Or she could do anything but that. This is when I started thinking about Mindscapes. I wanted to give the sense of being caught in someone’s internal monologue; They own the space so they should set what happens there. That is great for thoughts, but it’s awful for description. I know I rarely have descriptions of what I’m seeing going around in my head in that way. Did the present tense work? Would a different way of formatting work better? Let me know.
Meliath: A Late Night Conversation - Meliath and Erian share a conversation, and something more. This was originally just an inset in Marnie’s scene, but in figuring out what she heard, I got curious about how the boys interact when no one else is around. They became much closer than I expected. The aura sharing came out of what I’d been doing with the short stories, particularly A Change Unspoken, and realising how important that familial bond is.
Erian: Assessment Day 2-Concerns & Trust - The second Assessment session has commenced, and Marnie's 'random quirks' need to be discussed. This one changed a lot from the outline, as I realised I needed to address that Erian is assessing for the Council, and what that means for both him and Marnie. Also, I’d again planned too much for one scene. I am pleased with how this worked out, given it set a better stage for the Mindscape activity that followed.
Erian: Assessment Day 2-Exploring Mindscapes - The assessment continues as Erian and Marnie visit each others minds, and Erian sees the Boundary. I think the flow through Mindscapes worked in this one. It was challenging switching the perspective in a way that made technical sense, and kept Erian as the main voice. Thanks to having Erian and Gretham list off the issue expected in the previous scene, I could use comparison to indicate that what was going on is unexpected, in a more fluid way. And I really love the ending.
More on the main characters
I'd considered given a short summary on each of them, but the blurbs cover that. Let's instead have a few notes on why they exist.
Marnie Nab
The original protagonist. Marnie is a direct offshoot of Mardnab Garrick, a version of which is currently stuck in Gran Memtal. Mardnab was my second roleplaying character (Tilindra Melir was first). She was an Illusionist/Sorcerer gnome in DnD3.5e, who went on to become postmaster general in a homebrew Warhammer fantasy world’s Altdorf, and in my own head-canon travels between realities as I take her into various video games and TTRPGs. She is a full-on chaos gremlin with unruly purple hair and eyes, and I love her to bits.
Marnie came about when I was working out a sort of backstory for Mardnab. It didn't fit, but got me interested enough a couple of years later to try something with it. Marnie has the same in-the-moment attitude as Mardnab, the same unruly hair, eyes and height, but there is more maturity there.
Erian Lindall
Erian is… unexpected. He came out of me wanting someone to find Marnie in the cell, thinking he seemed a bit mean, and wanting to figure out why he was there. That coupled with a dream that turned into me writing for almost a solid four days, produced a character that is my personal exploration into emotions and empathy. Erian is powerful and intelligent, he knows what others feels, but have no real idea of his own emotions, and repeatedly misunderstands what the emotions he sees mean. Growing up in a country where emotion is viewed with suspicion, has led him to see his abilities as dangerous, and believing he can't be trusted. He is also the character that repeatedly suffers when I start running what-if scenarios, which I do feel guilty about, but not enough to stop.
Meliath Lindall
As I've mentioned, Meliath was an unknown until I started taking the novel seriously. I wanted someone to show a different perspective of Thaymia from Erian, to give some idea of how much is in his head, and how much is true. As I went through my various versions of the plot, who has his loyalty kept changing, and it’s still a little fluid. The empathic bond with Erian wasn't something I had originally planned, but became integral, as the Gethian roots of the Lindall family became stronger. Meliath is a Protector, both as a practitioner, and a protagonist. Possibly too protective sometimes, wanting to protect Erian from himself more than he should, but he will always try his best to keep his brother out of harm's way, whether Erian wants him to or not.
Some ramblings on structure and voice
Why scenes?
There was something I read when I first looked at Substack, comparing posting scenes and chapters. I can't remember if it was a note or post, or who wrote it, That I didn't take the writer’s name annoys me (Please comment if it was you, so I can thank you). The comparison stuck enough, that I asked myself what I wanted to post as.
Scenes have a set beginning and end focused around a moment, event, or action. They can be as long or short as necessary, providing they keep that focus. Chapters can be fluid, how you choose to start and end, and what has happened in between can change how events come across. By focusing on my scenes instead of how they combine into chapters while I'm drafting, gives me flexibility to add or remove single moments and events, and switch between perspective.
Why shifting perspectives?
That's an odd one. The first two scenes were originally just me writing some long notes about Marnie, that turned into a scene, and when Erian came up in it I wanted to know about him, so I did the same for his life. Originally, events would have just been told from Marnie's perspective, from that point on, but Erian turned out to be too interesting to leave alone. Meliath was similar. I had this blank slate of a brother, who came up a lot in part 2 or 3, but I couldn't figure out how they ticked. Doing the same event from his perspective, seemed the answer, and it worked well. Erian and Meliath are far closer than I'd envisioned, which while it's kind of dampening the dark tone I'd meant to go with, has let me to adding a richer subplot around Meliath and Xaelin cell than there would have been otherwise.
Shifting perspective also means I can control the information a little better. All three know different things, so while I'm still in draft mode, I can reveal information without feeling I'm saying something that Marnie or Erian wouldn't. I'm hoping that I will get that out of my system come the next draft, but in the meantime, I'll keep experimenting with it.
A personal critique (sort of)
I’m out of practice with reviewing, so I’m not going to attempt that on my own work right now, but I do want to highlight a few things. If you want to provide feedback on my writing, consider these suggestions for what to cover.
What I like
It's coming together as I planned.
It's satisfying when I get a scene to a good point.
Several new elements were created while I was writing.
Meliath was just a blank slate when I started, barely got along with Erian, and now he's a main character.
Experimenting.
It was fun working out the Mindscape stuff. I think it is going to work for more complex scenes, when I have struggles for control, and its challenging keeping the first person straight, and attempting to get personality across in the narration parts.
The short story influence.
I hadn't intended to work on more than the novel, so world building was going to be an as-needed approach. The prompts in July got a lot of bricks built, that fed into the plot a lot. Thalenra feels a lot bigger now.
What I need to work on
My descriptions need a lot of work.
They are all over the place. I really struggle to make it flow naturally, and constantly feel there is too much, which is stupid as I love reading descriptive passages in other people’s work.
The pace is too slow.
I keep feeling that everything is taking too long. That impacts both descriptions, and how much information I'm giving. I get too conscious of the word length.
I’m too controlling.
I think I'm keeping the PoV too close. I don't explain much, because I'm constantly thinking about what the character knows or is thinking at a given time, rather that writing for the reader. Part of that is not wanting to slow the pace down, when it feels so slow already. That is partly why I released the glossary, so I’d have something to refer to.
Too worried about spoilers
Comes back to the letting information out. I don't want to spoil later parts by saying something unnecessary, even though, realistically, anything I mention this early on should only enhance what comes later.
I need to let my draft be messy.
It's noticeable how different scenes 1&2 are from the rest, because they are true first drafts. I wrote them both over a year ago, before I intended to do a novel. Scene 3 onwards have all been approached knowing I'm putting it on Substack, and I automatically start editing as I go along, for more than just the obvious. I need to not do that, as while 1&2 are poorly written, they do the job they’re meant to.
What needs to change (when I do draft 2)
As mentioned in some of my post notes, scenes 1 & 2 will be rewritten, possibly significantly, but likely not until I start part 3. The trancing will change, as the descriptions and interactions with the energies. I will probably combine them both, and maybe do shifting perspective within the scene. That scene should be a lot darker, to capture what Belaine was doing down there, and set the tone of the novel.
Similarly, I will need to make my tone more consistent. It changes a lot, because I chose the different perspective approach; I can't do a consistently serious Marnie. It might be I end up picking one main perspective, and the other two get less scenes, and more insets.
What's next in the novel
Events in part 1b
Scene 12, which was meant to be the end of part 1a, will feature Meliath summarising several days of activity. This replaces the four scenes of meetings that it was going to be. By the end I will have established what Marnie's place is, what is officially known about the Order and Belaine, and sent Erian and Marnie off to the Academy.
Where part 1a covered around 5 days, part 1b covers about 8 months. Now, while Erian and Marnie are going to be at an Academy, I am not doing a school arc. That could be fun to do (there is a high probability for short stories for that period), but school shenanigans aren't what this story is about. Apart from the arrival, and a couple of key scenes necessary to furthering the plot, the focus should quickly move to the request arriving from Gethia. On the Meliath side, it will most likely be one or two short entries, following the ongoing investigation, or a short summary or report, given when Meliath next discusses things with Erian. That is still being planned out. I think it will depend on how impatient I get around starting part 2
What I will say for 1b is:
· Marnie's memories will be somewhat unscrambled,
· some more will be found out about the wall in Marnie's mind
· A traumatic event in Erian's past will be re-lived
· There will be a Lindall family meeting
· We will learn more about Gerard
Part 2 in Gethia: General themes and elements that will be encountered
Given what has come up in the short stories, I can probably say more than I would have a month ago on this part. It will take place in the Gethia, the capital of the Gethian kingdom. The tales of the Phoenix and the Light will play a large part, and Erian is going to have to face just how important Spiritual Energy is to him. The Order will be in the background, as they always are, and Meliath will be on their trail. Expect a training montage, deception, and misunderstandings.
Part 3: Dark and hidden
I am keeping this close to the chest, but I think a warning would be a good idea. It's the part I want to write most, but it is also deals with darker subjects; the Order is very present, and consequently there will be abuses of power, control, and free-will, along with the physical and mental abuse that go with them. I will probably stop posting when I get to this part, until it's finished and I can decide the best way to structure it. I'll also say now that I don't intend to pull any punches in what I post, but it won't be gratuitous. Anything I write, will serve a purpose, although it might not be clear at that precise moment.
Thalenra Lore
This is my rambling thoughts on a couple of world-lore areas. The Glossary is for specifics, so if there are any parts of technology, culture, or geography you want me to include there, let me know.
Technology/Society:
I was asked about Technology by
, when I put a question-call out. I'm going to do my best to give a cohesive answer to that question. I do 'know' what the tech is like but putting 'late 20th century TV sci-fi/fantasy show, but everything is Thaumic except when it isn't', probably isn't going to mean much to anyone who isn't me. I was asked if it was Shadowrun inspired, but while I played it a long time ago, I don't think the group I played with had the vibe that I think Shadowrun is meant to. I did look it up though, before I wrote this, so I'm going to use that as a comparison for some of this.Thalenra as a whole
Thalenra is a world formed through the combining of two energies, Thaumic and Spiritual. Both are covered in the Glossary, so I won't go into detail. To give some context, Thaumic energy covers the physics of the world, while Spiritual is what makes it alive. Thaumic does most of the heavy lifting, but it needs Spiritual to have anything to lift. Every country will use some combination of those two energies, and the two I've focused on so far, each place one above the other; due to historical reasons, concerning how strong the energy was in a particular area when the countries first formed.
Countries that rely on Thaumic energy tend to be what we would consider technologically advanced, with Thaymia the most advanced of all. Comparing to Shadowrun, there aren't any equivalents to cyber-ware or bio-ware, but Mindscapes could be considered the equivalent of a virtual environment, with Thaumic senses providing augmented vision.
Thaymia
Thaymia, which is probably most relevant for the tech question, culturally has similarities with Shadowrun. Thaymia is a relatively technologically advanced society, ruled by an authoritarian council of elites. It is a strict meritocracy based on Thaumic capability and family lineage. Anyone with Thaumic capability lives well, providing they do what the council says. They can use infused devices, are given Vell cards (equivalent to debit cards) for their transactional needs, and have access to the education necessary to move up in the world. All they must do is accept that every facet of their life is registered, and subject to monitoring; the Vell cards are their IDs, they are expected to register their Thaumic capability, and if are educated within the Academy system, then their future roles are subject to the Council's needs.
Anyone without Thaumic capability, meaning commonborn, is ignored, unless they get in the way. They don't have Vell cards, relying on coins and barter to fulfil their needs. Any non-Thaumic schooling is privately run, for the benefit of the few wealthy commonborn out there. There is no real protection provided by the council, and the guards that patrol the cities are there to maintain order, rather than enforce the laws that should protect the commonborn. The council only get involved with the commonborn, when it benefits them, such as when they realise the Order is getting too many recruits from that population pool - including Thaumic capable children.
The council does care for its people, and are mostly truthful in communicating with the public, but will choose to varnish the truth - rather than leave it to stand alone - if it thinks that gives the best long-term benefit. Bureaucracy and Propaganda are prevalent in all council dealings. You won't find Shadowrunners, as there is no place for mercenaries in Thaymia, but there are the street gangs in Velcirra, where the Thaumless often end up, willing to do what they can; and you will find the CCD operates as much in the shadows as it does the light.
On the tech side, Thaymia is high-tech, but only in comparison to the rest of the world. Infused devices are prevalent there, and for all intents and purposes, if something can be done on modern earth with technology, then there will be a Thaumic equivalent, that works at a similar level to late 20th-Century Earth. Among the commonborn, however, the most advanced it gets is early Victorian, but without the innovations that steam-power brought. There are runestones that operate like batteries, that the richer commonborn will have access to, but those are controlled by the Council, and heavily regulated.
Gethia
I'll start with technology for Gethia, because the simple answer is that there isn't any, if compared to Thaymia. There are far fewer Thaumic users, so fewer infused objects were developed, and Thaymia exports only when it benefits them. Gethia I would consider pastoral, so mostly pre-Victorian, with a few exceptions in the cities. They do have some technology that utilises Spiritual energy, but it's very rare, and mainly used in the capital, or for specific rituals.
Culturally, Gethia is a country built on Spiritual energy and cooperation. Every facet of it is based on the knowledge that over half the population know the emotions of those around them, and over a third of them can interact directly with spiritual energy. I couldn't think of any specific equivalents in media, except to say it's an amalgamation of 40 years' experience with both fantasy and sci-fi. Personally, I am bad at reading the room, or saying what my current feelings are, so much of what I do with Gethia is about as fantastical as you can get. Gethia can also be interpreted as my own personal thought experiment on what a truly open culture could be like, and if it's actually possible to have one.
Geography
I included some of this in the glossary, where specific places are mentioned, but I think giving a summary would be beneficial. Thaymia and Gethia are neighbouring countries, on the continent of Velrith. They span the continent splitting it in two. To the West are known countries, while the East is unknown. Thaumic faults, like the one that covers the province of Galythien, are present throughout the continent, and play a major part in the isolationist nature of most of Velrith’s countries; it's hard to get to know your neighbours when reaching them involves being torn apart by Thaumic energy.
I did post one map in July, which I then took on to Azgaar Fantasy Map Generator, after randomly generating continents until I had coastline that vaguely matched. After a lot of tomfoolery, the map shown below was created. Here you can see the continent of Velrith, and the (possible) countries it contains.
The Continent of Velrith
I have included more detailed maps for Thaymia and Gethia, with the provinces and settlements labelled. The crossed swords are where Belvor Stand is located, and the flame is where the action in Seven Dragons took place. If you look closely, you'll be able to find both Claybank Waylet in Thendrall, and Wreathend Glen in Gladerest.
The Thaymian Kingdom
Gethian Kingdom
End of Ramble
That's everything I had planned. I hope you found it a worthwhile read, that it answered some questions, and maybe suggested some new ones to ask me. Please comment on anything you want to know more about, or was confusing. Or anything else at all. See you in the next post.
As always, Thanks for Reading!